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Fledgling
 
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Last Login: 4/18/2009 8:09:25 PM
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| So my baby, my DYH Amazon (who technically belongs to my bf), has a long, long history of biting, but he and I really bonded over the summer/fall and he and I played together almost every day. He had only been biting if we had a few people over, and I guess he felt either threatened or jealous. We have been dealing with this most recently by putting him in his cage before people come over, and taking him out after they leave. It was working well. Then a week ago we got a moluccan cockatoo. Cisco had lived with other birds many times (although not a cockatoo to our knowledge), so my bf was not worried. (I was, but I always worry). Cisco went absolutely bonkers. He was constantly trying to bite us. (And he never tries to bite my bf). He actually flew at my bf's head once while my bf was holding the new bird several feet away from Cisco's cage, and he never flies unless he is seriously startled. He would creep up on the new bird and the new bird would shriek at him. Sometimes they seemed to like each other (they would perch next to each other), but sometimes they seemed to be chasing each other by climbing around Cisco's cage in circles (the new bird seemed to prefer perching on Cisco's cage door instead of her own). Finally we decided that maybe they shouldn't be out at the same time. This seemed to work for 2 days. Cisco wasn't overly affectionate when he was out, but he tolerated some petting, made some kisses to me, and was much, much calmer. But at the end of day 2, I went to kiss him (he and I had kissed several times already that day), and he clamped onto my upper lip with his beak. He's bit me plenty of times, but wow, that's a whole new kind of pain! He let go after a few seconds. My bf put him in his cage and was furious. He took the bird to his work and contacted the previous owner to see if she wanted him back. She said no, and I am so relieved. I convinced my bf to bring Cisco back today. But what do I do now? Should I never try to pet him again? My bf made me swear I won't try to kiss him again. I am really depressed over this. When he comes home today, I want to make sure I do everything right so he won't be agitated. I'm thinking of putting the two cages further apart, and talk to Cisco every day but maybe not take him out for a few days to give him a chance to settle down.
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Big Talker
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Last Login: 10/31/2009 8:58:56 AM
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| It seems to me that Cisco is a male and male zons are known for their aggression. Basically, what happened here is that the bird bonded with you and now feels his position threatened by the arrival of the new bird. But keeping him in his cage is not the answer, it would only make things worse. This is not his fault, he is just acting out from instinct and confusion. After all, these birds are monogamous and they don't understand how their chosen one can love other birds, too. It never happens in nature. As far as he's concerned, you should only pay attention to him and, if you don't, he'll let you know how displeased he is. Do try to follow exactly the same routines you had before the new bird came and always bring him out first so he understands that your love for him is not at risk. If you moved his cage to make room for her, put it back where it was. Keep them to a strict natural daylight schedule to avoid off-season gonadal growth and hormonal behavior all year round. Don't allow the birds to be out together and, when the too is out, be very careful not to allow her to perch on the zon's cage or she will end up with missing toes. Observe your zon carefully and learn his body language. It's very, very rare that zons attack without displaying first (pinning the eyes, fanning the tail, erecting the neck and head contour feathers) but, it can be a matter of a few seconds before he strikes so you will need to watch him carefully and constantly. Also, don't turn your back on him if he is displaying because, if you do, he will fly and bite the back of your neck. And, whenever he starts displaying, give him a good bath. Not as punishment but to distract him. They love baths and would do anything to get a good soaking one. And don't kiss the birds in the beak. The human mouth is full of bacteria that has no place in a bird's beak. Aside from that, time will tell. He might learn to live with the other bird or he might never accept her. Nobody can predict how a bird will react to another bird.
Bea & Birds
beatriz@newyorkbirds.net
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Feather Fanatic
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It is always upsetting to learn that our sweet little birdy babies have strong feelings and stronger ways to express them and WE end up being the receiver of a bite.
The very first thing to do is to get the birds into separate rooms. When a new bird comes into your flock 90 days of quarantine is needed to make sure that any symptoms of illness will be seen before the birds are put together. Even a bird with a clean bill of health can be carrying something that is not going to show up for some time. Since birds hide illness so well, this is often the only way you will be able to learn of anything wrong.
There is another good reason to separate these birds and that is so they can get used to each other from a distance. They will hear each other in the other room but not be forced to deal with each other. 90 days will give them time to get used to the idea of the new house, new people, new OTHER bird. When quarantine is over, I would only have their cages close enough that they can see each other and I would never take one out of the cage while near the other.
In your parrots minds that is like flirting with the neighbor man in front of your boyfriend. They have NO sense of humor when it comes to relationships.
I have had Willow, my BFA all her 8 years of life. She has always been with other birds. But when I brought Toodles in, a macaw, even after guarantine, it was a long time before I could hold and cuddle Toodles in front of her and not make her angry. I've had Toodles for 4 of her 6 years and it has been the last 1 year that i can finally have them both out and on each side of me to watch me type. And that is still not always easy. I have to make sure that Willow is not feeling slighted when I turn to give Toodles a scritch. I NEVER put my face in the way of a beak if they are both out and close to each other and me. I NEED my nose to hold up my glasses!
All parrots are protective and posessive of what is theirs. Including their person. Amazons sort of took that to extremes. The devotion of an amazon is a scary thing. It is hard to believe so much passion can be inside such a small body. It is what the bird is like. It is part of what makes it NOT a budgie, for example.
So, for now, get the birds in separate rooms. Quarantine the too and do all cares for the zon first. Do not wash their dishes together, do not handle the zon after the too unless you wash really well. Let them hear each other from a distance. Don't let them see each other or see you with the other. Regain your relationship with the zon. Start from day one with trust building. ( you broke the trust bond when you brought in another bird in the zon's mind) This will also help you rebuild your confidence. Read on good touch and bad touch with parrots. And take things very slowly. You are now dealing with the dynamic of each species of parrot and with the interaction of these two species. Off hand, I would say that you picked the two most demanding species to put together. It can work out. Maybe not like you want it to. But if you are careful and take your time and read the body language, it should get better.
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Feather Fanatic
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| Yep I agree with the above posts. Sounds like Cisco is bonded with you and is just , well...pissed off. Try to do everything with cisco first, then the too. Maybe a little extra cisco time also because he is feeling threatened. He may have flew at your bf's neck to drive him away. Birds will do this. For instance Sprout used to bite my hubby because I was his mate. But he also bit me from time to time to drive me away from whoever the offender was. I hope that made sense.
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Feather Fanatic
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Rule of thumb, the first bird in the flock gets all the firsts then down on the line in succession. I agree with all the posts also. Another rule of thumb, during dicey times such as acclimating a new fid with the original fid, no up close and personal face time. To avoid any beak bites on the face. It will all work out, just remember your Zon loves you very much.
Shares the title of naughtiest fid w/ Mrs. Beasly
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Feather Fanatic
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| I agree with Icky (and Bea). When I adopted Charlie, a mitred conure, I was going to keep him in a separate room from the other birds, but due to a friend (no longer) who was staying for a few days and does not like birds, I put Charlie in the bird room (where the cockatiels, budgies, bourke, and a cherry headed conure live). Well, Casey, a handraised cockatiel, was so upset over this new arrangement, she refused to come to me (and she's cage-free and flighted!). She never displayed this behavior before when any other birds were introduced to the flock, but she *DID NOT* like Charlie and kept away from me because she was upset! When I finally moved Charlie out of the room, she started flying to me again and getting her daily scritches. Now, Charlie sleeps in the bird room, and before I remove him out of the room to his day cage, I feed and handle the other birds. Casey will even fly to me without issues. The routine pretty much comprimises of me feeding Noel (other conure) and the little guys as Casey sits on my head or shoulders, then putting some food in my left hand for Faye. Faye flies to my hand to eat, and I give Casey scritches with my right hand. Once Faye is done, I dump the remains of the food from my hand, give Casey a few extra scritches, then set her down and go and get Charlie out of his sleep cage and move him to his day cage.
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Big Talker
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Last Login: 8/18/2009 9:22:13 PM
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Wow you have gotten some great advice in the above posts. I understand everyone is upset about your bite, it hurts both physically and emotionally and you said your boyfriend is furious...well please don't take it out on Cisco, it was not his fault he was doing what comes naturally. As you can see you guys did make some mistakes introducing the two birds but it is not to late to start over and try again. Please be patient and follow the advice from the members here they have all given you some great information. Good luck and I hope you stay on the forum and keep us posted on your progress and please don't be afraid to ask for help that is why we are all here, is to learn from each other.
 The difference between parrots and kids is that it's cute when a parrot talks back. www.macawsandmore.com
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Fledgling
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Last Login: 4/18/2009 8:09:25 PM
Posts: 27,
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| Thank you so much for all the advice. I did suspect maybe we just put these two birds too close together, way too soon. I missed Cisco so much and just got home, he is in his carrier and my bf is about to set up his cage. I am so excited but I am going to be very cautious, and not expect a whole lot of affection right away. I can generally tell when he is about to bite but he sure took me by surprise this last time. I'll work on reestablishing our routine...things got really screwed up for him over the holidays. He got a big new cages on the 24th, then on the 25th I was gone for 3 nights visiting family, and then a couple of days later, we got the cockatoo.
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